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dconnally
Phil

GK Event: Played in a GK Event GK Cup: Past & Current Champions of The GK Cup

Member Since:
    October 6, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Arnie
Favorite Golf Course:
    Oak Quarry; Tobiano


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Saturday June 16, 2018 1:25 PM
from another thread ......

QUOTED "but in the long run he may have saved himself some strokes."


So he hit a moving ball to keep it from going to a bad spot. Maybe "within the rules"(?).

Should he be DQd? - absolutely!!

Yes, I hate the setup here. They are showing clips from 2017 and that course was so much more playable and interesting - here you might as well be watching TKO.

If you hate it that much, withdraw. Take it up with the USGA. But don't abuse the rules, the field, and your reputation.
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Remember, we could be at work!!
 Message #88576
Itslikeimsayin
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 21, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil Mickelson
Favorite Golf Course:
    DragonRidge CC


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Saturday June 16, 2018 2:12 PM
Seems like a Decision on Rule 1-2 calls for DQ:
In deciding whether a player has committed a serious breach of Rule 1-2, the Committee should consider all aspects of the incident. Given the different impact on players in match play and stroke play, it is possible for the same act to constitute a serious breach of Rule 1-2 in stroke play but not in match play. In many cases in match play (e.g., a player who intentionally stops his ball from entering a water hazard), a penalty of loss of hole is sufficient while in stroke play the player should be disqualified for a serious breach. In some cases (e.g., the purposeful act of damaging the line of putt referred to in Decision 1-2/1), a penalty of disqualification in match play may be appropriate.
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 Message #88578 - This was a reply to message #88576
Nickesquire
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


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Saturday June 16, 2018 3:38 PM
I just saw what happened with Phil on video.

In stroke play, a shot is either WITHIN the rules (allowed or allowed with a penalty) or NOT WITHIN the rules (resulting in a DQ).

The rules are there to apply equally to all competitors. If some competitor(s) legally utilize means within the rules that other competitors have not done/thought of, they are NOT "abusing" the rules. And it is not up to each individual fan or competitor to decide if it is ethically or morally wrong to utilize something that the rules allow.

My take is that you can NEVER "abuse" something that is within the rules, that is an illogical fallacy. If it's a bad rule, then it needs to be changed... but until that point, EVERY rule is there for every competitor to utilize up to the maximum constraints the rule allows. Cross the line, and it's a DQ.

It's no different that an insanely long player going over trees and playing down the "wrong" fairway to cut 75-100 yards off a dogleg hole. That was not the way the hole was intended to be played... but absent in course OB, it is completely within his right to try and play it that way if he chooses. And it sucks to be the rest of us who don't have the skill/talent to play it that way IMO.

Jim may be right, Phil may NOT have snapped at all. It looked like he consciously tried to hole the moving putt. Through playing the course and rolling balls like they do in practice rounds, he could have been TOTALLY cognizant that if the first putt rolled to a stop 20? 35? 50? yards down the hill, that he would be unlikely to get it back as close as he was where he was purposely incurring the 2 stroke penalty.

I know I have learned a great deal about FREE relief that I would previously have never taken by volunteering at PGA events and watching what the pros legally do... because most of them know the rules inside/out, it's their job. I have had guys argue that it's illegal to do EXACTLY what I have seen pro's do with PGA rules officials right there advising them.

Ironically, this story involves Phil. L.A. Open, probably 12-15 years ago, his 2nd shot is in the deep rough just short/right of #9 green. He calls a rules official over, and is granted free relief from not sure what. He drops out of the deep rough, skips the fringe and is barely onto the green after his free drop. You would not believe how many people claim that is NOT ALLOWED under the rules... well, I witnessed it first hand from no more than 25' away, and it was right in front of his fellow competitors and the PGA Rules official. Were all the professionals in error?

For great insight into Phil's mindset/analytics, watch the recent 2 part Feherty interview. Specifically the part where Phil is going over all the things he processes on every shot. His take on how much he +/- each club for the time of day, temperature, lie, different types of wind, type of shot he is hitting etc. illustrates perfectly how in detail he calculates things and how smart he is. He has golf down to a science as well as anyone out there.


However, like Mark pointed out... a 2 stroke penalty may not be sufficient in stroke play if the tournament officials decide that Phil's move WAS purposely done because a 2 stroke penalty would be less severe than accepting the end result of the original shot. In that case, even though it is arbitrary (which I HATE about how certain rules can be enforced/not enforced)... then a DQ may be an appropriate end result.
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But on the many times I cannot seem to hit them straight, I at least want to hit them long!
 Message #88582 - This was a reply to message #88578
Rat-Patrol
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    April 20, 2013


Favorite Golfer:
    My Grandpa was
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Saturday June 16, 2018 4:06 PM
I agree with the DQ . . . I also like what the ex USGA guy said. Phil could have let the putt roll out then declared it unplayable at only 1 stroke.
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 Message #88583 - This was a reply to message #88582
lakesatelstinko
RE: Phil
Member Since:
    March 23, 2017


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack
Favorite Golf Course:
    oak valley/skylinks


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Saturday June 16, 2018 5:06 PM
It was b.s.. you respect the game at all times. Dq him. Because it was phi , you have different rules. You don't pull that crap in us open or in 5 dollar game. I am glad he has not won the tourney. I can't wait to see what the old timers say. You woundnt pull that at the masters.
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 Message #88585 - This was a reply to message #88576
leef2020
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 26, 2016


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack & Jordan
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    Baltusrol


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Saturday June 16, 2018 5:09 PM
I'm with Phil.

It's Joe Buck I have a serious problem with. Terrible golf announcer/analyst.
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 Message #88586 - This was a reply to message #88585
dcoachl
RE: Phil

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    November 16, 2011


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil
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    Aguila


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Saturday June 16, 2018 7:44 PM
So I guess you all know the rules better than the top USGA officials.
Then you’ve got the idiots at the golf channel claiming Phil disrespected the game for using the rules. Funny how they never accused TW, DJ, JD and numerous others of “disrespecting the game”
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 Message #88587 - This was a reply to message #88576
Nickesquire
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


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Saturday June 16, 2018 7:50 PM
QUOTED  It's Joe Buck I have a serious problem with.


I like Joe Buck on most events, but I agree here. Buck finally dropped it toward the end of the interview with the PGA officials, but he seemed to be advocating for and was almost incredulous that Phil was not being DQed.

[[Edited by Nickesquire on Saturday June 16, 2018 8:19 PM]]
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But on the many times I cannot seem to hit them straight, I at least want to hit them long!
 Message #88588 - This was a reply to message #88586
golferic420
RE: Phil
Member Since:
    July 25, 2016


Favorite Golfer:
    Lefty
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    Las Vegas Paiute


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Saturday June 16, 2018 8:31 PM
#I’mWithPhil - the next major social/political movement. Haha!
Phil knows the rules, Mike Davis knows the rules - he was assessed a penalty and not DQ’d. Latest report says Phil called Davis a few hours later and said I don’t want to play if I should have been DQ’d, and Davis said you’re fine.
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 Message #88590 - This was a reply to message #88576
leef2020
RE: Phil
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 26, 2016


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack & Jordan
Favorite Golf Course:
    Baltusrol


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Saturday June 16, 2018 8:38 PM
QUOTED  he seemed to be advocating for and was almost incredulous that Phil was not being DQed.



Agree 100%. Was glad when the USGA guys made it very clear that no, Phil should not have been DQ'd, and the rule was properly applied for the nth time.
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 Message #88591 - This was a reply to message #88588

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