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No walking rate !?!?
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TOPIC: No walking rate !?!?

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Hollis
No walking rate !?!?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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Sunday July 1, 2018 11:28 PM
Okay, this may come across as a bit of a rant, but I feel compelled to bring this to the community to have you guys chime in. Perhaps someone can enlighten me a bit. Jurupa Hills was a course that used to be in my regular rotation due to proximity, consistently smooth greens and a very walkable parkland style course. I'm one of those who believe the game of golf was meant to be played while walking. From my perspective, the green fee is a determined amount that reflects the cost, per person, that is required to maintain the current conditions.The cart fee is for those who need to use ADDITIONAL equipment provided by the course and covers wear and tear costs that arise in providing said ADDITIONAL equipment.
With that said, I feel as though a course should reward it's patrons that save the course that seemingly small expense. For those who are unaware of what walkers save you, here's a short list of the financial impact should a course eliminate all their carts, though I know it's extreme what I suggest;
Walkers don't drive carts close to or onto greens, damaging fringe areas and greens!
Walkers don't require you to use man hours cleaning carts!
Walkers don't damage or force you perform repairs on these expensive carts!
Walkers tend to carry their own distance measuring devises, eliminating the need for GPS monitors and the costly subscriptions
Walkers don't have your employees scrambling around providing patrons with fully charged carts!
Walkers never have to be rescued due to a dead battery while on course!
Walkers don't do power slides across wet fairways and the like!
Walkers don't lock up the brakes on the carts to have everyone in the vicinity turn and look towards the screeching tires!
Walkers don't escort their playing partners to their ball, ten yards away, slowing down the pace of play!
Finally, Walkers don't get plastered drunk while playing, in fact, we rarely drink while playing, it's an energy zapper.

So, I feel it's a slap in the face for Jurupa Hills (other courses too) to charge me the same rate as patrons who need the course's ADDITIONAL equipment. What next, maybe you'll add on a club rental fee whether I need/use them or not!? I know, that was a stretch, but really, how much of a stretch? How much different is that?
Yes, as you probably can tell, I'm pissed about it, maybe I shouldn't be, but Jurupa Hills is definitely OUT of my rotation! In a nutshell, I feel slightly disrespected and grossly unappreciated!
Am I being short sighted? Should I not feel this way, or do you agree? Jurupa Hills is not the only course to implement this practice. Anxiously awaiting my golfing community's response...

[[Edited by Hollis on Sunday July 1, 2018 11:32 PM]]
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 Message #88746
sngernz
RE: No walking rate !?!?

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    January 24, 2005


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Monday July 2, 2018 6:21 AM
Hollis: rant, yes, but you make some good points ... it'd be interesting to get the other sides point of view, that is, if any course managers read this post and decide to reply. [My guess is that since they have already made the investment for cart service, they want to maximize that by charging all patrons.]

For me, life's too short to worry about whether or not I have to pay a few extra bucks for an electric cart and decide to walk (which does happen occasionally). Like you, if I don't agree with a course policy I will play elsewhere.
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 Message #88747 - This was a reply to message #88746
Rat-Patrol
RE: No walking rate !?!?
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Monday July 2, 2018 7:14 AM
As I have some time on my hands lately I have been looking into which courses are walker friendly and their rates. I haven't seen yet what Hollis is talking about but totally agree if I am walking why should I be charged for a cart? Is that like a restaurant pre-adding a 20% tip to the bill? Not sure but maybe carts are like drinks at restaurants and are almost pure profit?
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 Message #88748 - This was a reply to message #88747
Rat-Patrol
RE: No walking rate !?!?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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Monday July 2, 2018 8:45 AM
. . . and $15 to $20 isn't what I consider, "a few extra bucks" (must be nice to be able to throw it around like that!), that starts to add up.
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 Message #88750 - This was a reply to message #88748
Alex326
RE: No walking rate !?!?
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    November 20, 2015


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Monday July 2, 2018 8:48 AM
Some courses like Indian Wells mandate the use of carts for pace of play. It helps keep people (especially older folks in vacation mode) moving along and Management can monitor GPS to see who's falling behind and send out a marshal to speed them up. As far as the idiots who feel the need to get drunk on a golf course, well that's an entirely different thread. As far as monetary costs for maintaining carts, sending someone out to rescue carts etc, that is minimal compared to the profit made from the number of extra golfers they get on course because of carts.

I'm in that category myself. Yes there are plenty of course I walk even when they include a cart in the green fee, but I'd estimate I play an "extra" 25+ rounds a year because I can zip around the course in a cart and finish my round in sub 3 hours. So eliminating carts in this day and age is a money loser for courses.

That brings us to the part of charging the same rate for walkers. Ok, I admit that does sorta suck. I can only assume the bean counters have done an analysis and figure the profit from charging everyone the cart fee will outweigh the loss of revenue from pure walkers who won't come back.

We have to remember it's a business. We all want a killer deal and pay dirt cheap green fees for pristine conditions. then complain when a course shuts down because it's not making money. One of the things I do is try and eat lunch at the course as often as possible. Like it was said, Food and beverage are pure profit makers for them. I have to eat somewhere so I'd rather support the course than some chain restaurant down the road.
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 Message #88751 - This was a reply to message #88748
noeldaof
RE: No walking rate !?!?
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Monday July 2, 2018 9:26 AM
This may be a little different situation- I'm not sure if the reasoning and policy of a local course here at Rancho Vista gc is the same as Jurupa.

During weekends, and holidays, Rancho Vista gc implements a mandatory cart use, and the golfers are charged for it automatically. The reason for mandatory cart is speed of play. The course aims for a smooth flowing rounds for everyone as much as possible with a goal to maintain a reasonable pace of play.

If you chose to walk, however, if anyone happens to fall behind because the walkers are slower than the speed of play, it could be a problem- usually not from the course initially, but rather the folks behind. Probably because they were subject to the same cart charge rule on weekends and holidays.

Weekdays, the course gives you the choice to walk or ride.

In any case, do I like the idea of a mandatory cart use? I find my answer to be within reasons of NO because I like walking, and YES, because it helps the course move along faster. Is it fair that the course implements a mandatory cart use? I'll say YES if the local golfing community's vote is aimed for a goal to have a faster smoother pace of play, however, NO for any other reason.

There aren't many courses around us here in the Antelope Valley, and obviously it leaves us without much choices. Nevertheless, if I want to avoid any course, near or far from me for any reason, I just do it.

You're entitled to your own opinion/discretion and if that's the way you feel about it, no one can say right or wrong for you.
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JVGA
 Message #88752 - This was a reply to message #88746
GDR23
RE: No walking rate !?!?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event GK Cup: Past & Current Champions of The GK Cup

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    March 21, 2006


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Monday July 2, 2018 10:07 AM
Hollis--thanks for your post.

I am a walker most times unless I am super tired that day or its a very hot day or if its a deal with a cart on a hilly course. At times even with a Teeoff.com deal with a cart I will ditch the cart to walk especially if buddies are walking as well.

I agree with your point that golf was meant to be a nice stroll/walk in the park. Two thoughts--- its one thing if the course mandates a cart to play(Lost Canyons, Tierra Rejada, Moorpark CC, etc). Its another thing if there is an option to ride or walk and the course is charging walkers a mandatory "cart fee". I don't agree with that. Never really came across that problem--not sure I would personally give my business to a course that mandates a cart fee when I want to and can walk a course. Just my thoughts.

Play well.
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 Message #88753 - This was a reply to message #88752
putt4doughorelse
RE: No walking rate !?!?
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    January 10, 2009


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Monday July 2, 2018 10:42 AM
IMHO this policy is the best of 2 evils. Granted there are true golf enthusiasts that believe walking is essential to the game but in Southern California most courses simply are not walkable. The one rate policy helps 2 things; 1st pace of play is obvious, 2nd is not so obvious would be the person that says they are going to walk in their 4 ball pays his walking fee and after 2 holes decides they really want to ride. Guess they get the cart free because of the limited resources clubs already have to monitor other issues on the course and really puts the resources in a very awkward position if they choose to address the problem.
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 Message #88754 - This was a reply to message #88746
Hollis
RE: No walking rate !?!?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
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Favorite Golfer:
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Monday July 2, 2018 10:55 AM
I appreciate the feedback from all, let me address the pace of play concerns first. I know I'm not a part of the majority, but as a single digit index who is often on Green in regulation, or within one shot of gir, I often get funny looks on the first tee as a walker joining a two or threesome, only to find myself looking back at my partners from the green executing an approach shot, happens often. It's difficult to keep pace with a single and occasionally a twosome, but never a threesome, unless all three hit fairways. For the most part, by the time they get to their first ball, judge distance, take a couple practice swings and set up, I'm right next to them. And in most instances since I drive the ball on average between 260-270 I'm further down the fairway than most. Yeah, I get it I may the the exception rather than the norm, but my experience is what I can speak to, no one else's.
Pace of play issues, lol, let's be honest, how many of us have encountered this problem, while in carts, only to have NOTHING be done about it? I know, there are lots of courses that are concerned about pop issues, but many more that say they are, both don't take actual steps to resolve the issue.
As far as mandatory cart use courses, I fully understand and agree with that policy, because it can be justified several ways, but we are talking about courses that give you the option. To use the restaurant example, what would be your reaction should you choose to solely drink water, for whatever reason, and you patronize a diner that informs you 'yeah, you can have water, but we are still charging you for a beverage, whether you drink it or not.'? Most people wouldn't stand for that practice, and take their business elsewhere.
Alex326, the mark up on food and beverages, especially beer, is usually what keeps kitchens and the like afloat. A good business model is to separate different revenue generators in order to balance costs and finance distribution. To have multiple 'hands' pulling from the same 'pot' is a poor business model.
To me this would be more fair; if management has decided $50(just a roundabout number) is the target fee per golfer, then charge that, and charge an extra cart fee for exactly that, extra equipment needed. Imo, that has taken place already, then with the knowledge that two foursomes will clear one cart barn attendees salary for the entire day, a 'hand over fist' profit can be 'extorted' from every single golfer that pays a green fee.
When you see exactly how the sausage is being made, you're less likely to be okay with eating it. I hope you get the reference.
But thanks to all who replied, for the perspective.
In the meantime, I've got the day off today, and I'm about to go find a course to walk, lol!

[[Edited by Hollis on Monday July 2, 2018 10:59 AM]]
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 Message #88755 - This was a reply to message #88752
Rat-Patrol
RE: No walking rate !?!?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    April 20, 2013


Favorite Golfer:
    My Grandpa was
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    Balboa Park GC


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Monday July 2, 2018 11:19 AM
If a course is full, even if you aren't really waiting on shots much, when walking, on a decent course for walking, 9 times outta 10 I am waiting for those in a cart to catch up. Unless there is an undue amount of distance between greens and tees or the place is wide open (and even then sometimes I'm waiting on those riding in a cart) carts are no faster than walking. Heat, old age, physical limitations, spread out course, a place to set your beer are all legit
reasons to ride, and I enjoy riding. But the original question was if a course should charge walkers and riders the same fee. Mandatory carts are a different matter.
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