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TOPIC: Frost delays

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zachary
Frost delays

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    April 16, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Paul Goydos
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    Industry Hills


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Monday December 21, 2020 7:31 PM
Curious where everyone stands on these. Back about 10 years ago, frost delay meant everyone that had a tee time during the delay lost their time unless the course could work them in using unused times. I feel like now, everyone keeps their Times and they just push everyone back. I am sorry, but I made a 9am tee time to be done by 2 and I also know that frost is a problem early, so I try and stay out of those early times. Why am I now pushed back an hour to allow the early times to go off? I already planned on a five hour round because I teed off later but now I have to wait for the frost times to play? Everyone that wants to tee off early takes that chance, just like going off at 1pm means you might not finish all 18. Buyer beware but don’t punish me please.
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 Message #97322
Alex326
RE: Frost delays
GK Event: Played in a GK Event Birdie Chain: Stake Holder BCB Birdie Chain GKGC EAGLE: GKGC Eagle Supporter

Member Since:
    November 20, 2015


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
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    Pebble Beach


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Monday December 21, 2020 9:05 PM
A very interesting perspective. I can't honestly say that I agree or disagree with your point of view. being a relative newbie, I've only seen the everyone gets pushed back method so I've grown accustomed to it. However, that doesn't mean it's right. Other industries seem to follow the everyone gets pushed back method. Maybe this is why golf went that route? Idk A 2pm doctors visit doesn't get to jump in front of the 1:30 appointment because everything is running behind schedule come 2pm.

Maybe the happy medium is a couple groups going off simultaneously from the 1st and 10th tee? True there will be an eventual log jam on the first tee but that should only be for a few groups and hopefully it'll be less of a wait than delaying everyone. Just some thoughts.
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 Message #97326 - This was a reply to message #97322
Golpher
RE: Frost delays
Member Since:
    August 14, 2010


Favorite Golfer:
    J Day
Favorite Golf Course:
    Rams Hill


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Monday December 21, 2020 11:36 PM
I agree with the old method of losing your time during a frost delay. Players who book early should be aware of the possibility of frost. Nowadays, the courses are full, and there is no place to work in the frost times. I was told by a starter that the course has a choice of angering only the morning groups who lose their times, or angering the entire teesheet who gets pushed back an hour or two. By the way, angering was not the word he used. Many courses have the back nine morning times, so 1st and 10th tee option is not always available. Now that courses require online bookings, the course should notify the early golfers of the frost delay and possibly save them from coming to the course.

[[Edited by Golpher on Monday December 21, 2020 11:38 PM]]

[[Edited by Golpher on Tuesday December 22, 2020 12:00 AM]]
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 Message #97331 - This was a reply to message #97322
weber
RE: Frost delays
Member Since:
    December 4, 2002


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil/Jordan
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    tournament Club of Iowa


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 6:03 AM
As somebody who always plays super early, I have had my share of frost delay encounters. I totally agree that the tee times affected by the delay should be cancelled, but placed back on a wait list with the earliest tee time placed highest on the list. That's the risk you take when booking that early time during the winter. Not right to punish the entire remainder of the tee sheet just to accommodate an hour or two or the early tee times. I have been involved in numerous frost delays during my golf life and experienced both policies, but always felt bad when people's times were pushed back, despite being the beneficiary of what I felt was poor policy
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 Message #97337 - This was a reply to message #97331
bnr1986
RE: Frost delays
Member Since:
    April 19, 2011


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    prestwick GC


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 8:04 AM
at private clubs, that have tee times, they just push everyone back. perhaps where that's applicable, start booking time anticipating the frost? meaning book for 8a knowing it'll likely turn into 9a (and that applies at publics too)...

one concept the public courses could try is when the 7:30 tt becomes 8a b/c of frost, send either that group off 10 or the original 8a off 10. hell, alternate (meaning the push backed crew on saturdays gets first tee, on sundays they get 10th tee). this would be a way to try and kill 2 birds w/ one stone.

it does feel like frost delays are up this december compared to the last 2. am i wrong on that?
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 Message #97338 - This was a reply to message #97337
dconnally
RE: Frost delays

GK Event: Played in a GK Event GK Cup: Past & Current Champions of The GK Cup GKGC BIRDIE: GKGC Birdie Supporter Birdie Chain: Stake Holder BCB Birdie Chain SCGA GK Golf Club: Member

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    October 6, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Arnie
Favorite Golf Course:
    Oak Quarry; Tobiano


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 9:21 AM
Another possible factor for the "pushing" decision:

at many clubs the early players are the Men's club or early 'regulars' that have more outsized influence and the course may want to avoid conflict with.
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Remember, we could be at work!!
 Message #97343 - This was a reply to message #97341
kevbig
RE: Frost delays
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 15, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
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Favorite Golf Course:
    Palmer Course- Turtle Bay


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 1:39 PM
A couple of observations from a course operations perspective. While there may not be a right or wrong way to handle frost delays, a well run operation (superintendent, management, golf staff) should be able to anticipate upcoming frost delays and plan accordingly either by blocking early morning tee times from being booked or by contacting existing reservations to communicate the possible delays. Courses that know frost is in the forecast and do not adjust their tee sheet accordingly are asking for trouble.

The reason why a lot of course use the "push back" system is that they can potentially get back on schedule within the first 30-45 minutes of tee times depending on how long the delay lasts. Any frost delay over and hour and that is simply poor management of the tee sheet and operation.

As for split tee starts after frost, that simply isn't feasible in many cases because don't forget that maintenance has to wait out the frost as well before getting out on the course. Not to mention the logistical nightmare of running split tees in the morning and regular starts later in the day. Good luck with that lol

[[Edited by kevbig on Tuesday December 22, 2020 4:09 PM]]
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 Message #97351 - This was a reply to message #97343
Nickesquire
RE: Frost delays
GK Event: Played in a GK Event SCGA GK Golf Club: Member GKGC EAGLE: GKGC Eagle Supporter

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    August 11, 2007


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 2:35 PM
Zachary and Weber both bring up valid points that I would lean toward if it were my golf course. There are no good alternatives, someone who planned on playing @ "X" time is getting delayed is the reality.

Many people have driven a ways to arrive at the course for their tee time. I guess the fairness question comes into play on how long the delay is? If it's 20-30 minutes, I could see everyone being pushed back and the course doing what it can to get back on schedule. But if it's approaching an hour or more? Then they probably need to just cancel the affected tee times and work those people in as they can.

To push EVERYONE back 60+ minutes seems unfair. And it's also a valid point that a person expecting to tee off at 9:00 who has time budgeted a 5 hour window and made plans later in the day is being screwed if they have to wait for all the people with 8:00 and later tee times to go ahead of them @ 9:00.

Basic question to you as a golf consumer. Is losing your spot because of an hour frost delay any different than making a tee time 5 hours before dark thinking you will have plenty of time to finish. Only to arrive and find out the course is running 45 minutes behind and the POP is really sluggish. Turns out the 18 holes you thought you made a tee time for is going to be more like 12-15 holes? Are both not situations beyond your control that you are aware could be an issue before you make your tee time.

Frost delays are a known problem for those that play early in the cooler weather months. Getting too dark to finish is a known problem for those that play later in the day. Probably a good reason that @ courses with dynamic or tiered pricing, the mid morning tee times are frequently the most expensive?

If it's going to be a significant delay, better to piss off the earliest tee times by canceling them than to throw off everyone playing all day seems the most prudent way of doing business.
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The goal has always been long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, hopefully straighter could be achieved more than occasionally?
 Message #97353 - This was a reply to message #97351
dconnally
RE: Frost delays

GK Event: Played in a GK Event GK Cup: Past & Current Champions of The GK Cup GKGC BIRDIE: GKGC Birdie Supporter Birdie Chain: Stake Holder BCB Birdie Chain SCGA GK Golf Club: Member

Member Since:
    October 6, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Arnie
Favorite Golf Course:
    Oak Quarry; Tobiano


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Tuesday December 22, 2020 4:02 PM
QUOTED  better to piss off the earliest tee times by canceling them


Again, members and early regulars.
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Remember, we could be at work!!
 Message #97357 - This was a reply to message #97353
Alex326
RE: Frost delays
GK Event: Played in a GK Event Birdie Chain: Stake Holder BCB Birdie Chain GKGC EAGLE: GKGC Eagle Supporter

Member Since:
    November 20, 2015


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Thursday December 24, 2020 5:37 AM
My other thought on utilizing the push back method is that the early morning guys are usually the fast players and will clear out quickly.
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 Message #97364 - This was a reply to message #97357

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