Discussions in --- Use This to POST ---
Moderated By CPennbo, JohnnyGK, Nickesquire, ringworld, weber2323

Forums
Greenskeeper.org
--- Use This to POST ---
Number rating of courses
YOUR SETTINGSLIST FORUMSLIST TOPICSSEARCH

TOPIC: Number rating of courses

PRINT TOPICSEND THIS TO A FRIEND

Listing 1 to 10 of 24 Replies

PAGES: 3 1 2 3
chevelle
Number rating of courses

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 2, 2008


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Goose Creek


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 6:10 AM
I write allot of reviews and it was very kindly suggested to me that I add rating numbers to the courses. I don't feel comfortable doing that for the following reasons. Someone's 8.5 is someone's else's 5.5 and someone's 5.5 is someone's else's 8.3. The way I look at is the price of the course has a major impact on the 1 to 10 rating system. If I play a $15 to $30 course, my expectations and critiques are much milder than if I play a $70 and above course. I don't play many high end courses because I really don't feel most of them are worth it. The weather has so much to do with a courses condition and it effects both high and low ends courses, be it too hot and burned out or too wet and soggy. If I go to paradise knolls and pay $15 I know there will be some bare spots in the fairways, uneven tee boxes, but really good greens. If I go to tijeras creek or San Juan hills and pay $70 and up I better have really good conditions. That being said my number rating for those courses is greatly affected by the price and I don't think most people add numbers based on the price, they just want the $15 course to be the same condition as the $70 course. I have never felt a number rating system has any merit on anything because it is so subjective and as they say, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder " thanks for letting me explain and hope everyone has a great 2020 golf season.
REPLY
 Message #93076
Alex326
RE: Number rating of courses
Member Since:
    November 20, 2015


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    Pebble Beach


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 8:34 AM
Whereas I agree with you on some aspects, I disagree on other perspectives. Not that your viewpoint is wrong by any means. The two main points I agree with you on is that condition ratings are subjective. However, I think as a group the averages are pretty close. Sort of like the Olympics, throw out the high and low scores and total up the rest. When I'm looking to play a course I've never played before, I look at two things on the ratings. The overall averages as mentioned above and the ratings of members who I've played with and know their rating styles. For Example I've played enough with RGM2525 to know that his ratings are almost identical to mine.

The second area I agree on is golfers who want Rams Hill conditions and Cascata treatment at Paradise Knolls prices! the courses are in it to make money so there has to be trade off. Either we pay for supreme conditions or they cut corners on Maintanence to keep costs down.

For me the rating is based on actual conditions of the course regardless of the price. I don't mind (and even expect) some thin areas and bare patches at a $15 course. I do not expect the same at a $300 course. So if I see a course rating in the 5's but can get on for under $20 I'm good with that.

You make a great point about the weather affecting course conditions. I've learned to look for reviews during the same time frame as I'll be playing. Winter/summer etc.
REPLY
 Message #93077 - This was a reply to message #93076
Nickesquire
RE: Number rating of courses
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack-Freddie-Tiger-Rory
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 9:31 AM
The exact reasons stated are the reasons I personally would PREFER to see everyone's numbers associated with their review.

Totally agree that expectations could/should be different on a $30 course compared to a $300 course. However, with that said, the condition of a green is the condition of a green. It is lush with no bare areas or it isn't. It is smooth or it isn't. It is at least medium fast or it isn't. An 8 rated green on a $30 course should be no different than an 8 rated green on a $300 course.

Yes, some review with higher (or lower) numbers than others. It IS subjective. For dozens of people that I regularly read their reviews, I have gotten to where I have a pretty good idea before I click on their review's numbers after reading it the range their numbers will be.

From personal experience of frequently moving around to inland, costal and desert courses, the conditions DO vary radically. I chuckle when a guy used to playing LA/OC muni's gets exposed to a thoroughly average desert course that over seeds. They think they are playing Augusta National and rave about how lush it is. And compared to what they usually play, it IS lush. But I could take them to some courses within a few miles and show them what lush really is.

So no, a $30 course is unlikely to be able to maintain all areas of the rough and fairways like a $300 course. But they d%mn sure should have grass on their tee boxes and regularly mow whatever grass they do have.

The main area that people reviewing the course AND adding ratings assists others unfamiliar with that course? Explains perfectly WHERE a course is lacking that may/may not come through in reading many different reviews. Also easier to quickly check numbers of 5 different reviews that to read every word of review after review.

If there have been a bunch of people rate a course and I can see that the greens are good but the rest of the course is mediocre, I can get a feel on WHY this is a 5-6 rated course compared to a 7-8 rated course. I'll still go play a course with great greens if the rest of the conditions are so/so. However, I'm MUCH less likely to go play if those circumstances are reversed.

I sometimes put notes on my scorecard while playing to assist me rate it later. However, after having rated over a thousand courses in the past decade+, they become easier to evaluate. I look at the traps as I pass by, and I watch my players partners shots to see if they are too thin. I look at other tees besides the color I am playing to see how well maintained they are. And I hit enough balls in the rough to usually have a great feel for how good a courses rough is.


Another thing about GK course ratings. The rating system on GK is supposed to JUST rate the playing conditions of the golf course. Period. There are separate 1-5 star areas that rate customer service, layout etc. Players should be rating the course 0-10 in each area based JUST on the playing condition of the greens, tee boxes, fairways, rough and sand traps... not on if it's a great/poor layout, or if the drink cart is cheap/expensive or whether the starter/Marshall is dismissive or the nicest person in the world. Mention them in the review, but like I stated earlier, an 8 green is an 8 green!

I used to have a hard time rating a piece of crap layout high, because I was factoring in that there is no way this course can be rated higher than a really good course. WRONG!!! Here are two prime examples.

I lived down the street from Lost Canyons before it closed. It was still a 5 star layout even if they had run the playing conditions into the ground and they were more like a 2-5 in most playing condition areas before it finally closed on the GK 0-10 scale. On the opposite end of the spectrum is a local Palm Desert course I regularly play, Woodhaven. Layout is very vanilla, unexciting, shorter, old school 1960's. 2-3 out of 5 star type layout. However, good to excellent greens are the norm and they usually have lush grass throughout. Almost always in the 7+ range on the GK playing condition scale IMO.

The bottom line is that the more you do it, the easier it gets. And I believe that you assist your fellow GKers in doing so.

[[Edited by Nickesquire on Wednesday January 1, 2020 7:08 PM]]
REPLY
The goal has always been long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, hopefully straighter could be achieved more than occasionally?
 Message #93078 - This was a reply to message #93077
Deepsea14
RE: Number rating of courses
Member Since:
    October 15, 2017


Favorite Golfer:
    Dad and his Dad
Favorite Golf Course:
    The one I'm playing


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 10:08 AM
My two cents...
Agree with both of you. Nearing the century mark in career GK reviews I've thought about this subject as it relates to my write-ups.

The law of averages will work out if enough players put number ratings. Not being sure how GK weights the numbers or doesn't. For example the reviewers average score is asked. Two stars or three should make no difference the course rating. Heavier weighting to the conditions staff and facility. Ideally a regular weekly player submitting reviews each time and a few occasional visitor reviews would produce a most accurate rating over time.

The review reader should account for the $ vs $$ or $$$ green fee costs. I try to rank conditions versus other courses of similar expected condition levels. The municipal course $ I play to "warm up" the day before playing a $$$ resort course can't be equally rated with the same eye for defects.

For me and seems like others, it's about the greens. Good greens are key at any course. It's the reason I found and joined GK. The local paper stopped publishing the aeration schedules spring and fall a few years back searched to find an online source. Hence here I am. The information in the reviews here give a good general idea of what you'll experience beyond just that part of the game, so I appreciate this site as a resource. More reviews equal more accurate the course ratings.

Of course weather and time of year is a major factor. Recent trip to Vegas as example. In December Royal Links was mostly dormant with painted fairways and greens. It played hard and fast true links style; whereas in the middle of summer they may need to drench the grass with water to keep it alive and therefore it would play slower and the greens maybe not cut as tight slowing their speed. That's why I try to date my review and weather conditions for the day and prior to so the reader will have that data for comparison.

Peruse the 2019 reviews of River Oaks (Nor Cal /Sacramento Area) Nicolaus CA. I reviewed this year in May last review was 2017. Since then three gurus have played the $ course, reviewed and ranked it too. In my opinion taken as a whole (4 reviews) the reader and potential player has an accurate idea what to expect. The number is accurate to what it is.

We all work together and it will benefit ALL who like to... "Know before you go."
REPLY
 Message #93079 - This was a reply to message #93077
chevelle
RE: Number rating of courses

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 2, 2008


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Goose Creek


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 10:46 AM
See this is what I mean about numbers, "budinle" just wrote a review on la mirada, he played 1/1/20, and said it was terrible but rated it a 5, I played 12/31/19 the day before and thought is "ok" with the greens and the traps in good shape. What good does that 5 rating do if the words are that harsh. The number systems means absolutely nothing to me. To this guy a 5 is a terrible course conditions and i read above that a 5 is average conditions.

[[Edited by chevelle on Wednesday January 1, 2020 10:50 AM]]
REPLY
 Message #93082 - This was a reply to message #93079
Itslikeimsayin
RE: Number rating of courses
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 21, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil Mickelson
Favorite Golf Course:
    DragonRidge CC


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 10:56 AM
QUOTED  See this is what I mean about numbers, "budinle" just wrote a review on la mirada, he played 1/1/20, and said it was terrible but rated it a 5, I played 12/31/19 the day before and thought is "ok" with the greens and the traps in good shape. What good does that 5 rating do if the words are that harsh. The number systems means absolutely nothing to me. To this guy a 5 is a terrible course conditions and i read above that a 5 is average conditions.


He also said the greens were outstanding, and unless I'm mistaken, the GK rating system gives the most weight to the rating of the greens. So even if the rest of the course is a 2, greens rated at 8 might balance out the total rating.

Personally I much prefer seeing a rating associated with a review, even though I fully understand the numbers are subjective.
REPLY
 Message #93084 - This was a reply to message #93082
chevelle
RE: Number rating of courses

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 2, 2008


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Goose Creek


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 11:09 AM
Well I am sorry to be stubborn but I do NOT believe in a number rating system for anything, cars golf course, people, trucks, etc. If that is NOT acceptable I will continue to READ reviews but will not contribute since my reviews are words only.
REPLY
 Message #93085 - This was a reply to message #93084
24hourgolf
RE: Number rating of courses
Member Since:
    June 6, 2011


Favorite Golfer:
    N/A
Favorite Golf Course:
    N/A


RPGC MAIL USER ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 12:04 PM
QUOTED  Personally I much prefer seeing a rating associated with a review, even though I fully understand the numbers are subjective.


Best stated statement in all the posts. IMO.
REPLY
 Message #93086 - This was a reply to message #93084
chevelle
RE: Number rating of courses

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 2, 2008


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Goose Creek


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 12:35 PM
I grew up in an era that guys "rated" girls looks on a number bases. I thought that was the most horrible, discussing, and degrading thing that could be done and I vowed never to rate "anything" with numbers. Fine call me weird, but I do not do the number thing. The written language can be such a wonderful and beautiful tool to describe things and I prefer to spend the time reading instead of using an excel spreadsheet number, old school reading and yes I read paper back books, no Tablet.
REPLY
 Message #93087 - This was a reply to message #93086
Itslikeimsayin
RE: Number rating of courses
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    July 21, 2003


Favorite Golfer:
    Phil Mickelson
Favorite Golf Course:
    DragonRidge CC


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday January 1, 2020 12:37 PM
Keep doing what you're doing, Chevelle. Your reviews are appreciated.
REPLY
 Message #93088 - This was a reply to message #93085

Listing 1 to 10 of 24 Replies

PAGES: 3 1 2 3

[ Community Page ]