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TOPIC: Handicap and Performance

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noeldaof
Handicap and Performance
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    November 4, 2004


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Friday November 2, 2018 9:48 AM
Handicap in golf: I was introduced and were told it was a tool and a system to gauge or measure an improvements in golf. I liked the idea and thought, it was great that I could actually see how I'm doing over time. I wanted to log as many rounds I could so to see where I'm at and even made goals but many of it were broken or unachievable in the way that I've planed to get there. (It's been better lately.) But at the same time, I interpreted the system as my own police under the rules of golf at the best of my knowledge that it is also the same way or something within and among golfers to work with it honestly in an honorable manner.

I bring this up because I have been hearing more and more bogus handicapping. It used to be just individuals here and there, then a handful in spots, but now it's a group and clubs who actually maintains separate handicapping for their own group and also while playing outside of their group. WOW!!

So my question is this; am I just behind the times? Should I be padding my handicap as well? Is everyone else keeping two separate handicaps now?
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JVGA
 Message #89783
sparky14
RE: Handicap and Performance
Member Since:
    March 26, 2003


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    Ben Crenshaw
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    All except Shorecliffs


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Friday November 2, 2018 11:21 AM
Nah, I'm pretty sure everyone is completely honest about their handicaps. Mine is absolutely legit, other than a few gimmes, a few mulligans, a foot wedge here or there. And the obligatory "I feel like I shot 4 shots better than my score" reduction at the end.

I used to play a net tourney once in a while, but I got tired of seeing a 10 hdcp come in with a gross 68 / net 58. And that seemed to happen more times than not. I realized that I'd have to beat my best ever score by 5 shots to get close.
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 Message #89785 - This was a reply to message #89783
Rat-Patrol
RE: Handicap and Performance
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    April 20, 2013


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    My Grandpa was
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    Balboa Park GC


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Friday November 2, 2018 11:43 AM
Some are honest.
Some have an ego handicap.
Some just don't know how to properly keep a handicap . . .
and then there are the sandbaggers looking to take advantage.

That's why I don't play in competitions anymore. When a 10 shoots 68 then is still a 10 for the next tourney it's time for me to opt out.
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 Message #89786 - This was a reply to message #89785
Deepsea14
RE: Handicap and Performance
Member Since:
    October 15, 2017


Favorite Golfer:
    Dad and his Dad
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    The one I'm playing


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Friday November 2, 2018 12:10 PM
The old saying is that “figures will not lie,” but a new saying is “liars will figure.” It is our duty, as practical statisticians, to prevent the liar from figuring; in other words, to prevent him from perverting the truth, in the interest of some theory he wishes to establish. Carroll D. Wright 1913

Or as my father said "Figures never lie but liars always figure."

I played in a match play league for 14 years. One could manipulate their handicap in the following manner. If you have your match 4&3 3&2 2&1 whatever slip in a smooth double bogey or two coming in and pad the handicap. One guy was so good at it we named it "pulling a Charlie" and gave him credit for being an expert at winning and keeping a high handicap. Posted the "honest" score without the best effort.

NCGA or USGA has algorithms or some method to test the legitimacy of one's index. Interesting but not foolproof to someone intent on scamming.

Can't play in a net tournament without considering the presence of sandbaggers. Play for the joy of the game and the test the game presents. Score is secondary.

I will take my own advice and play Bayonet & Blackhorse this weekend with perfect weather under tournament conditions.

Enjoy...
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 Message #89787 - This was a reply to message #89786
RDDenn
RE: Handicap and Performance

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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    September 22, 2006


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Friday November 2, 2018 2:58 PM
QUOTED  played in a match play league for 14 years. One could manipulate their handicap in the following manner. If you have your match 4&3 3&2 2&1 whatever slip in a smooth double bogey or two coming in and pad the handicap. One guy was so good at it we named it "pulling a Charlie" and gave him credit for being an expert at winning and keeping a high handicap. Posted the "honest" score without the best effort.

I do not know if it is a change in the rules, but my understanding is that once the match play match is concluded, the players are required to "handicap out" on the remaining holes. Meaning if you win 3&2, with a 10 handicap and the 11th and 9th handicap holes remaining, you score them par bogey, respectively, in determining your score to post, even if you actually double bogey both of them.

I belong to a few clubs. One I know that if I score around my handicap I am in the money, one where it is unlikely in that case I will get anything, and one where it is a crapshoot because there is a broad range of handicaps in the flights. I like the competition so I play when I can.
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 Message #89791 - This was a reply to message #89787
RDDenn
RE: Handicap and Performance

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    September 22, 2006


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Friday November 2, 2018 3:06 PM
QUOTED  but now it's a group and clubs who actually maintains separate handicapping for their own group and also while playing outside of their group. WOW!!


I think this is a sophisticated anti-sandbagging technique for clubs to "reward" someone who does unreasonably well in club tourneys by giving them a tournament handicap to adjust for the unusual success. Los Verdes has done a couple of versions of this in their men's club tourneys. I think they have one now that only affects a few people as opposed to one that affected many other players in the past (including me for a thankfully brief period of time). I am not sure what clubs can do about member's outside play other than kicking them out of the club.

I believe the World Amateur Handicap Golf Championship in Myrtle Beach does something like this also for players that have apparently legitimate handicaps but statistically unusual success.
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 Message #89792 - This was a reply to message #89783
Alex326
RE: Handicap and Performance
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    November 20, 2015


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Saturday November 3, 2018 9:41 AM
The way I see it, the only way to make the handicap system truly work is to only count tournament rounds towards a persons handicap.
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 Message #89798 - This was a reply to message #89792
Krystal
RE: Handicap and Performance

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    May 15, 2007


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    dad
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Saturday November 3, 2018 5:24 PM
It really comes down to education and enforcement. If your handicap chairman is doing his job, s/he's monitoring scorecards and any posted score without a proper scorecard are deemed improper (therefore, not postable). It took a few years but, at our club, our memberships will not post 'practice rounds.' A practice round is a non-scorable round. It's a casual round that we're not trying our best. It's a social round and shouldn't be considered for handicap purposes. We, therefore, have true handicaps for tournament purposes.

Tom Morgan, when he was Executive Director at SCGA encouraged Club Handicap Chairman to educate and enforce the Rules of Golf. There's too much GIGO (Garbage In = Garbage Out) with the handicap tool. Unfortunately, it effects us all. Casual rounds goes in, non-adjusted scores goes in, without penalty scores, etc. We end up seeing a fuzzy profile of a golfer's ability competing in tournaments.

Naturally, as the game grew, there was a proliferation of non-green golf clubs. Those HCs were unable to validate scores/cards. IMHO, the system became became polluted and I'm not sure there's a viable solution to clean handicap system in real competition. There are triggers to catch sandbaggers so they're not endlessly "competing" with an advantage. That, however, is topic for a different day.

krys
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 Message #89803 - This was a reply to message #89798
noeldaof
RE: Handicap and Performance
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    November 4, 2004


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Monday November 5, 2018 2:52 PM
Hey Everyone, thanks for chiming in on this. I took notes of a few things to take back to our club and suggest/implement and I appreciate all of it. I just don't know what to do with other clubs who actually speaks about their clubs having a different handicap when they play each other within their club, and another set of indexes (the recorded SCGA) when they play other clubs.

About 8 years ago or so, we had a great group of guys and we started an invitational tournament within the club we were in. It was great- we always had a 100% participation among us- I mean everyone wants in and we would have the best of whatever we could afford in prices games and all the fun stuff anyone could imagine as part of golf. We had it going for a few years and none what so ever had anyone heard someone complain about anyone's handicap. One year, we didn't spend much on anything, but it was still a hundred % participation, and it was just as great and fun. Everyone enjoyed each other's game. It was then that we realized that it really makes things a lot of fun without the baggers involve. It felt like we had our club back again.

Thanks again, Everyone.

_n.
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JVGA
 Message #89810 - This was a reply to message #89803

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