Discussions in GK Suggestions, Support & Discussions
Moderated By CPennbo, JohnnyGK, kviser, Paisano, thingstodo

Forums
Greenskeeper.org
GK Suggestions, Support & Discussions
Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group...
YOUR SETTINGSLIST FORUMSLIST TOPICSSEARCH

TOPIC: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?

PRINT TOPICSEND THIS TO A FRIEND

Listing 1 to 8 of 8 Replies

PAGES: 1
Nickesquire
Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Wednesday April 24, 2019 1:00 PM
Played early morning with a nice 4some @ SilverRock. We teed off @ exactly 8:00 and finished just before noon, so 3H, 55M POP on a packed course playing on a windy morning. On #18, we had to wait on the tee several minutes for the green to clear on the driveable par 4, so we finished right there with the 4some in front of us.

I shot 87 from the Blues, which I was VERY happy with in that wind. One ball in the water and one other bad hole where I made a big number because first my chipping and then my putting must have thought I needed to look at a pin perched on top of a knoll multiple times from different angles?

The senior gentleman I was riding with thought of himself as a fast player. Nice guy, played the whites. He did not take long to line up his shots or play once his turn. However, he was constantly frustrated by the POP. Freaking out when we were 1/2 hole behind the 4some in front of us early in the round. Complaining about another member of the 4some we were paired with about every other hole.

The guy he was complaining about made me look like Sixpex. One of the most deliberate preshot routines I have ever seen. Numerous practice turns (half swings) where he was mimicking the way he wanted to turn on his shot. Then line up, 3 waggles, then back off, recheck alignment, reset up, then hit. He also looked at most putts from both directions, also often looked at them from a 45 degree angle from aside the putt. He was doing all his green work while others were putting, so he was not holding things up nor was he disruptive to other players.

I would guess the guy I was riding with who played the whites shot at least 95, maybe over 100 with numerous lost balls and a generous (but not unreasonable) amount of time spent in the native areas looking for and then playing wayward shots. He was what I would call "time appropriate" for a player that shot around 100 on a tough course in the wind. He was NOT a slow player, he was just not nearly as quick/efficient as he thought he was. Especially with 2-3 minutes added about every third hole locating and then playing his ball in the waste areas.

The guy with the SUPER INTRICATE pre shot routine? Zero penalty shots, zero time spent looking for his balls, hit almost every fairway/green. 5 birdies and I think 3? bogeys, so he shot around 70 from the Blues. Another way of analyzing his round... he recorded almost 30 less total shots than the guy complaining about him.

So which one was slowing the group down?

I was reflecting on the comments and attiude of the golfer who shot 95+ from the whites driving home. Assuming he would have timed out to about 30 seconds a shot for his roughly 30 extra shots, that is 15 extra minutes over a guy who took 30 less shots a round than he did. Giving him credit for 2.5 minutes each (which may be generous) for his half dozen adventures into the native waste areas, that would be another 15 minutes where the other guy had 0 time spent in this column.

So that would be 15 minutes for extra shots plus 15 minutes looking for his ball = 30 minutes EXTRA for the guy who was complaining about POP. Question? Does he, or anyone REALLY believe a guy shooting 70 with a deliberate pre shot routine would by himself add 30 minutes to your round of golf?

My answer after reflection would be that neither player was holding up the group, and that 3H, 55M was about as good as we were going to do on a packed course. However, my main takeaway was that one guy seemed to have a great time and shot under par, and I for one thoroughly enjoyed watching him best a tough course under difficult scoring conditions. The other guy was seemingly miserable and was likely giving himself heartburn (if not an ulcer) worrying about POP when we still finished well in front of the group behind us.
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, could I at least hit them straighter?
 Message #91157
zachary
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    April 16, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Paul Goydos
Favorite Golf Course:
    Industry Hills


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Thursday April 25, 2019 9:32 AM
Great question Nickesquire. There is good and bad in what you describe. The pros do the same thing as your amateur and shoot low scores but can still take 5 hours with a 2 some. The problem with slow play for me is if you are holding up your own group and the group behind you.

I laugh at a marshall who watches a group play slow for 5 holes, holding up everyone behind them, moves them forward and then tells my group we are now behind... Really, because I didn't move with the slow group? Any time your group is a hole behind, you are slowing everyone down behind you. It is just respectful and considerate. I have played with guys that shoot 110 and are faster than any 3 handicap I know. It is not how you do your routine as much as when. If they read the green while others are putting and doing their pre-shot routine while others are playing, not a problem. but if they do all that when it is their turn to hit, we have a problem. Most do it when it is their turn and have no clue why they are always behind the group in front of them, IE JB Holmes.

Slow play is always going to be there and most have no clue, but general rules apply, keep up with the group in front and be respectful of your partners in your group.
REPLY
 Message #91162 - This was a reply to message #91157
leef2020
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    March 26, 2016


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack & Jordan
Favorite Golf Course:
    Baltusrol


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Thursday April 25, 2019 10:33 AM
Well, good that he was concerned about POP. Bad that he was a bit snarky. In the end, 3hrs 55mins on a tougher than average golf course on a busy day is not bad, imho. Weber might disagree... and would be reminded why he wants to be 'first off' :-)

The deliberate player reminds me of a woman (not a par shooter, however) we were paired with a few weeks ago at Ranch San Joaquin. Was pretty painful to watch it over and over and certainly slowed us down. 3 semi-practice swings and a final full dress rehearsal practice swing before the real one happened! Was fooled throughout the round that her final practice effort was going to be her real swing (shame on me). At least her putting routine was timely.

Your post does also remind me of an observation I've had a number of times. It has been striking to me at times even when a 4some of above average players 'collectively' play slow (not counting when $ is on the line). Each player, left to their own routine, may play at a good pace. However, sometimes the mix of tee boxes used, and the situations you describe, where one (or more) players need to look for wayward balls and another may be pokey in his/her pre-shot routine, creates a disynergy / inefficiency amongst the players.

This can also be highlighted when cart-sharers and 4somes are not playing good 'cart golf', and moving from each player's ball location like a mini-posse together, inhibiting the group's ability to individually 'multi-task'.
REPLY
 Message #91163 - This was a reply to message #91157
faxgolf89
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
Member Since:
    March 28, 2013


Favorite Golfer:
    rory
Favorite Golf Course:
    still looking


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Thursday April 25, 2019 11:04 AM
It's hard to complain about someone who might be slow in your group if your group is not falling behind. Faster play will only result in more waiting at the tee box and elsewhere. Still, watching a very deliberate pre-shot routine can get annoying.

[[Edited by faxgolf89 on Thursday April 25, 2019 11:04 AM]]
REPLY
 Message #91164 - This was a reply to message #91163
mlslaw
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
Member Since:
    November 6, 2004


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Rustic Canyon


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Thursday April 25, 2019 8:05 PM
My take on your post generates a different response.

As to the guy with the good score with the tedious pre shot routine, I was struck when you described that he would, after figuring out his address/set up, would "back off" and do it all over again. Exasperating. I'd play with that guy exactly one time.

As to the guy hitting it crooked, that's golf as long as the guy adheres to the searching time limits.

I'd rather play with the wild guy than the guy backing off. But your wild guy had a bad attitude to boot, so I'd cross him off the list as well.

Nick, is your usual golf "go out" walking on as a single? If so, no control over what the public wants throw at you on a given day.
REPLY
 Message #91170 - This was a reply to message #91157
Nickesquire
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    August 11, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    Jack, Freddie, Tiger
Favorite Golf Course:
    Maderas Olivas Sherwood


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Thursday April 25, 2019 9:29 PM
QUOTED  Nick, is your usual golf "go out" walking on as a single? If so, no control over what the public wants throw at you on a given day.


About 95% of the time, yes, I am walking on as a single. Usually during the week, I rarely play on weekends.

While I certaintly enjoy playing with some I get matched up with more than others, very rarely do I get matched up with someone that makes the round unenjoyable. Probably 99% of the people I get matched up with this is my one and only interaction. A few juniors, many ladies and tons of seniors over the past few years. Have played with more than a few that shot around or under par and more than a few that could not break 100 on a good day. I usually play better with better players, but the reality is that it doesn't matter all that much to me who I play with most days. May as well have fun, hopefully they do too!
REPLY
The goal is long and straight! But since I can no longer hit them long, could I at least hit them straighter?
 Message #91172 - This was a reply to message #91170
sdscratchorbust
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
Member Since:
    September 16, 2017


Favorite Golfer:
    Tiger Woods
Favorite Golf Course:
    Pasatiempo


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Friday April 26, 2019 6:09 AM
Great post and observations Nick. Happiness is what you make of it. You have a conscious choice to be happy or let slow pay affect you.

It's definitely a complicated dynamic. At this point in my life I only play solo or with friends. Rarely will I roll the dice and join groups as a solo. Now granted, I have had some awesome times and met some great people along the way... But I feel like I'm a rare breed like us fellow Greenskeepers. I'm good at golf not great. But I don't take myself seriously anymore on the course and I make sure I have a good time. I love the game of golf, I love being on the course, I use it to unwind.

If I am paired with Johnny Headcovers. You know this guy. Has a custom $650 driver he shows off on the first hole, with his slick shaft and talks about how much he loves it. Stands over the ball waiting for the apocalypse, then proceeds to roll a ball 220 yards out. Then clearly has no other sort of game of any kind then proceeds to get angry, pout, get mad at himself saying he knows he is better than this. Although he never practices or works on any aspect of his short game.

If it's slow I will straight up walk off the course at 9 if I am paired up with one of those guys. My happiness is more important.

Back to your point. I don't mind the guy who takes longer if he is good. If he takes that long to practice but shoots a 70. He isn't slowing things down. Now if it's the alternative. Mr 10 practice swing dropkick murphy. I will leave the group or walk off the course.

I think the biggest thing that slows things down are drivable par fours and reachable par 5's. Everyone waits to go. As they should. I've gotten impatient and not waited and hit up when I think I've never had a chance and almost shattered peoples calves. Likewise I don't enjoy it when a ball rolls up on me. But it is annoying after a 10 min wait you watch someone duff or spray their 3 woods then spend forever looking for it. I am all for going for them. They paid to get their money's worth. Who cares about scores it's fun to go for them when you pull it off. However, I think allowing the group behind to hit up will dramatically speed things up.

What are your thoughts on that?
REPLY
 Message #91175 - This was a reply to message #91172
mlslaw
RE: Pace of Play? Which golfer is causing the group to play slower?
Member Since:
    November 6, 2004


Favorite Golfer:
    Fred Couples
Favorite Golf Course:
    Rustic Canyon


RPGC MAIL USER VIEW USER REGISTRY ADD USER TO BUDDY LIST
Friday April 26, 2019 5:29 PM
I've been known to walk off after 9 if the fun quotient drops drastically.
REPLY
 Message #91191 - This was a reply to message #91175

Listing 1 to 8 of 8 Replies

PAGES: 1

[ Community Page ]