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TOPIC: Golf GPS

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Krystal
RE: Golf GPS

Member Since:
    May 15, 2007


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Thursday July 30, 2015 1:54 PM
QUOTED 
QUOTED (1-2 yards is also the general accepted margin for error for rangefinders - no way to tell which one is correct in those instances)

the rangefinder will say 149, 150 or 151 and give that same result day in and day out.


That's so wrong... I wonder if you might have a link to a source you're drawing that conclusion from. If a rangefinder is rated "up to 1000 yards" the QC standard is 1/3rd of that distance. An excellent rangefinder will be +/- 18" from that distance. A better than average rangefinder's range is 800 yards = 275 accurate to +/- 1 yard. At 150 yard, 99.9% of problems are user related.

There is a learning curve in how to use a rangefinder correctly. The most accurate public environment is a football field. Pinging a goal post is a start (should be 122 yards from goal post to goal post (measure the distance between end line and goal post)). After you're efficient at pinging a goal post, ping end line to end line with reflector tape (120 yards). Then without reflector tape. Next work on picking up pin with the goal post as a backdrop. Place reflector tape on a galvanized steel fence post (top). Move from top to bottom (you should have the SAME #!).

After you've established your 100 and 150 pings, your able to stake out a middle pin 150 yards out. Set a pin with reflector tape another 100 yards out and practice pinging from 250 yards. After you've established the ability to ping with reflector tape, cover the tape and continue with your lesson. Obviously, you can test the boundaries of your rangefinder. For some, shooting is very natural. Others, not so much. At some point, you as a golfer and your rangefinder will be calibrated. Congratulations!!!

Here's a few interesting links you guys might find interesting... knowledge is powerful if used correctly.

http://www.mygolfspy.com/golfs-most-wanted-best-laser-rangefinder-2014/

http://www.trimble.com/gps_tutorial/howgps.aspx
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_rangefinder


QUOTED I guess what I am amazed at is that the evolution of the app business allows a product that provides distance, contour information, learns my capabilities with a given club, can give me a fly over of a hole I have never seen can be marketed for $0-$15.

I think we're all familiar with Waze and Google-Maps. They're both the same. Google bought Waze a couple years ago. What is different is the interface. Developers are buying the same data. Provided a different interface. Some are more detailed in using satellite mapping. The problem, of course, is when all the data is the same, consumers fall into the "everybody says it is" mentality. All you old-timers understand the GIGO acronym. btw, NASA reports there are 30 GPS satellites in orbit.
How_Do_Global_Positioning_Systems
How_Do_Global_Positioning_Systems

keep it in the short stuff...
krys

btw, when I'm playing golf for playing sake, I don't have a need for any type of DMD.

Links adjusted to fit spacing.

[[Edited by ringworld on Friday July 31, 2015 6:51 PM]]
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 Message #73009 - This was a reply to message #73001
HmtGolfGuy
RE: Golf GPS
GK Event: Played in a GK Event GK Cup: Past & Current Champions of The GK Cup

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    November 25, 2012


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Friday July 31, 2015 12:24 AM
QUOTED  That's so wrong... I wonder if you might have a link to a source you're drawing that conclusion from.

Hi Krystal. This was based on a conversation with a Laser Link rep I happened to run in to at a Golfsmith. What he said it being a consistent error seemed to make sense, so I assumed (incorrectly it seems) he knew what he was talking about.

Now, before we completely throw him under the bus, there may be several other factors involved. First, the particular brand - According to the info on the Golfsmith website, the Laser Link Red Hot 2 is accurate to + or - 1 yard.
http://www.golfsmith.com/product/30146871/laser-link-red-hot-2-rangefinder

Same for their more expensive XL-1000.
http://www.golfsmith.com/product/30123357/laser-link-xl-1000-rangefinder

He may also have been talking about "entry level" models vs "higher end" models. For example, the Leupold PinCaddie is their "entry level" model and claims a margin for error of plus/minus 1 yard.
http://www.golfsmith.com/product/30091285/leupold-pincaddie-rangefinder

On the other hand, their GX4i2 model states it's accurate to 1 foot at 400 yards.
http://www.golfsmith.com/product/30101382/leupold-gx4i2-rangefinder

Last but not least, he may have been referring to what the "average" user can expect. Most users have neither the time nor dedication to spend a chunk of time at a football field honing this skill (btw, that sounds like a fantastic way of doing it!), so for them plus/minus a yard may be the best they're going to get, and in most instances that's more than good enough (especially when considering most mid or high handicap players have a personal margin for error with any particular club far greater than 1 yard).

To go back to the other part about it being a consistent error, even for those who are pretty skilled at hitting to a specific distance, if the margin for error is one yard but it's consistent as to whether it's short or long, that would still be extremely useful (if a rangefinder tells me I hit an 8-iron 149 when it's actually 150, and it consistently reads 149 instead of 150, it still gets the job done).

However, for someone like yourself who uses a rangefinder as part of your job, plus/minus 1 yard can make a BIG difference, and I'm quite willing to defer to your experience and knowledge (and I'm sure you and other tour players are NOT using "entry level" models!). Based on that, I'm going to have to explore getting a rangefinder to compliment my GPS - I still love how my app let's you "see" the hole before teeing off (especially on a course I haven't played) and track shots, but as I try to improve my consistency the superior accuracy of a good rangefinder would definitely be helpful.

[[Edited by HmtGolfGuy on Friday July 31, 2015 8:26 AM]]
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 Message #73014 - This was a reply to message #73009
BGarcelon
RE: Golf GPS
Member Since:
    May 15, 2015


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Friday July 31, 2015 7:47 AM
Up until a few months ago I was finding the marker and walking it off. Played with a guy who who had a Garmin S6 and he had it dialed in. Especially on approach shots where he can move the pin on the watch to match the location. I ended up with a S4 and love it. Some guys I play with have the more expensive range finders but will often use the distance off my S4. W/ a $50 rebate from garmin, I was out the door for around $200.
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 Message #73016 - This was a reply to message #73014
michaelko
RE: Golf GPS
NorCal Community Staff

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Friday July 31, 2015 11:07 AM
QUOTED Very rarely am I interested in a front/back # provided by a GPS system.


Most people shoot the pin.. it's 153 to the pin... for your rec player.. knowing the front of the green is 145 and the pin is 153, and the back is 180... that's a lot of info... add in a greenside bunker carry 137... i know i can hit 165 and be ok if i miss short or long.

or if i'm 250 out, and the front of the green is 225, i'm more inclined to go for it because i know i have 225 in my bag, but not 250.
QUOTED What I AM interested in is a carry distance. It might be to carry a bunker, a ridge on the green or both. I'm might interested in a number behind a pin. Give me something to bounce a laser off of and I have a number.

QUOTED  There's a reason rangefinders are vastly more prevelant on tour.

1. sky caddie/sky golf maps up to 40 features per hole... so bunker carries, distance to hazards, distance to landmarks... all as accurate as the middle of the green.

2. i think another reason tour players don't use GPS is because they have very detailed yardage books that serve the same function. then they use the rangefinders to get and supplement that info... generally, we don't have that.
QUOTED  Data from a GPS system gets fuzzy the farther away you get from your reference points.

1. i don't think this is necessarily true.. it's equally fuzzy whether you are 50 yds from the pin, or 250.
2. i think the further you are from the pin, the less you care, at least for the rec golfer.
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 Message #73023 - This was a reply to message #72996
Krystal
RE: Golf GPS

Member Since:
    May 15, 2007


Favorite Golfer:
    dad
Favorite Golf Course:
    Royal County Down


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Friday July 31, 2015 1:20 PM
@BGarcelon: Exactly my point. When a user has no idea how to use a product, it has diminished value. Where, your playing partner modeled how to 'dial in' a Garmin (btw, it's a very good product), you were taught how to better utilize a DMD. What's crazy is a player's determination that a more precise tool is less valuable because the user is not capable in its use. That's like blaming the machine at Starbuck's for a poor cup of coffee when you have a newbie making your cup. The product and the user are independent. To think otherwise is silly.

@michaelko: While a rec player has a single shot into a green, scratch (notice I didn't say Tour players) have multiple shots. Scratch players have the ability to play low, high, fade, draw, one-bounce. We're interested in how the ball reacts when it hits a green and what shot(s) are best to cozy a ball to a hole. While an average player is selecting a shot, a low index player is eliminating shots.

Let's take your example of the 250 hole. An executed shot leave you 25 yards. When you miss, what's your yardage? It's not 25 yards? Right? It's more likely 65. And, that's where a GPS system stinks. Most systems will give you an arc off the box. Your ball will travel 225 but, it's not likely traveling 225 in a straight line.

Now, let's say I'm in the junk and I've got to kick a ball 150 and slice it 25 onto a green/fairway. You're telling me your GPS is capable of telling me where my apex is? It takes me less than 2 seconds to ping a spot in a fairway and ping a landing/roll out spot. You're telling me that shot Bubba hit at Augusta, through the trees and onto a green could've been spotted with a GPS system? And, who's more likely to be in the junk? A scratch player of mid/high capper?

I'm not at all saying there isn't room for GPS-DMD's. There certainly is. Like you've noted, it's a yardage guide. And, those that use them correctly have proven results. Likewise, those that have used lasers have documented results. Those that haven't been able to learn the in's and out's of their tools are less likely to cash in (whatever DMD they've elected to employ).

Cutting to the chase, it is laughable to read the suggestions applauding how their GPS is a better tool than a laser though
btw, posted 68 yesterday playing from the blacks @Wilson with delegates from the Special Olympics. No lasers. No GPS. Just putting a drive in play and taking what the course was giving me

take care guys,
krys
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 Message #73029 - This was a reply to message #73016
Enyalius
RE: Golf GPS

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    June 11, 2011


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Friday July 31, 2015 3:31 PM
QUOTED  Check out the Bushnell Neo Ghost .Small , cheap and awesome

Count me as a second for a Bushnell Neo. I have the Bushnell Neo + and like it. It was cheap, not too fancy, fits into my pocket, and its durable enough I'm not worried if I drop it. It is plenty accurate, though not as pinpoint accurate as laser rangefinders. However, it is also at least a third of the cost of a laser rangefinder.

I'm not into watches, or voice devices, or anything fancy. I just wanted a black plastic puck that fit in my pocket that I could pull out get the distance, and put back in my pocket. It does the job. I also didn't want a recurring monthly or annual fee that some devices wanted to impose. The neo didn't have that.

It has auto-advance when you get to the next hole, and if you hit the "shot" button it will measure how far you hit from the point where you pushed the "shot" button. Don't use this last feature if you don't want to know the truth about your drive distance.
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 Message #73035 - This was a reply to message #72981
Enyalius
RE: Golf GPS

GK Event: Played in a GK Event

Member Since:
    June 11, 2011


Favorite Golfer:
    Ray Floyd - Craig Stadler
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    500 Club


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Friday July 31, 2015 3:33 PM
One other thing I'd add. The phone apps are a drain on your battery. The standalone golf gps are power sippers. No worry about it going dead during a 4 hour round.
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 Message #73036 - This was a reply to message #73035
BogeyFree
RE: Golf GPS
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    March 26, 2009


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Friday July 31, 2015 4:40 PM
QUOTED 
QUOTED  Data from a GPS system gets fuzzy the farther away you get from your reference points.

1. i don't think this is necessarily true.. it's equally fuzzy whether you are 50 yds from the pin, or 250.


QUOTED 
QUOTED [Posted By addictedtugolf on 07.29.2015 5:13 PM]

GOLF LOGIX software....I would constantly submit adjustments would be needed on various courses. I recall they use Satellites etc to map courses unlike some companies have guys walking around with unit's on their backs to map courses


Actually, the lady is correct. This is why ATG's submissions are valid AND accepted by Golf Logix. While we all think a GPS feature is a nice novelty, not all GPS receivers are created equally. Those application developers that have mapped golf courses with lasers and pin-pointed markers as reference points are naturally more accurate than strictly signal determinant devices. The farther you are from those markers, the "fuzzier" your data. In fact, that "data" could be in conflict with what a GPS receiver is determining as distance between. Mapping companies employ independent contractors to walk course (among other territories) after establishing a DGPS system close by. You see their results via their application(s).

How valid are the reported data? Very good. Will be better. If you think GPS is good, wait til you see IGPS. Here's generally what the European Space Agency assessment of GPS:

Receivers can be categorized by their type in different ways, and under different criteria. For instance, receivers can be stand-alone, or may benefit from corrections or measurements provided by augmentation system or by receivers in the vicinities (DGPS). Moreover receivers might be generic all purpose receivers or can be built specifically having the application in mind: navigation, accurate positioning or timing, surveying, etc. In addition to position and velocity, GPS receivers also provide time. An important amount of economic activities, such wireless telephone, electrical power grids or financial networks rely on precision timing for synchronization and operational efficiency. GPS enables the users to determine the time with a high precision without needing to use expensive atomic clocks.

The initial purpose of the GPS system was military but with the free availability of GPS signals and the availability of cheap GNSS receivers, the GPS technology is having a pervasive use in civil, industrial, scientific areas. Currently the use of GPS in Civil Applications is generalized, and it is well known that GPS Receivers have been spread very fast as well as the manufacturers dedicated to this


http://www.navipedia.net/index.php/GPS_Receivers
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 Message #73038 - This was a reply to message #73023
grantar2
RE: Golf GPS
GK Event: Played in a GK Event

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Friday July 31, 2015 6:36 PM
There are ways to manage the power drain I am learning. However agree the phone based units are more hungry than dedicated. At the same time you can try one of the cheap / free apps, and decide if you like GPS as an aid before moving up.

A feature of GPS that hasn't been mentioned enough is analytics and learning. All of the programs allow you to measure where you are in relation to the hole. Some give you distance to hazards, maps and flyovers etc. But what is nice for the non pro's among us, or after a swing change is to mark where the ball ended up and the club used. I measure where I am, where the ball landed and then tell the system what club I used, and the surface I was on. It saves that data, downloads it to my database. Eventually it will be able to recommend a club. But well that is nice, it's much more important for me to know what my average is in play vs. in the simulator or on the driving range. I'm a stud on level ground at the driving range on the mats. Give me a down hill lie, juicy rough, water directly in front of me and things can get dicey.

There is really no reason for GPS data which is triangulated from a satellite to get fuzzy as you move away from a marker. What the GPS maker can't know is the exact pin location, so accuracy to the pin should ideally be better with the range finder. Depending on how hard the cartographer has worked to covert the satellite imagery or GPS mapping into data for the program being run, will determine the accuracy to non movable objects such as hazards.
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 Message #73040 - This was a reply to message #73036
ringworld
RE: Golf GPS

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Friday July 31, 2015 7:16 PM
One of the things I found is Lithium batteries for the Range finders is a good thing. Sure batteries are expensive but they last longer. How long I will find out.

Bought a Nikon range finder for under $200 and I am sold. Easy to find targets. Just use one elbow like you're firing a gun to support the rangefinder take a deep breath and your hands will steady. Don't forget to breathe though.

The GPS is ok but for me the Range Finder offers a lot more flexibility. You can say all you want about GPS but you won't get me to change my mind.

Some of you talk about price but this being my second range finder (the first one I lost because it had a black case and it was dark when I rolled into the cart barn. Did not see it) it's white and easily seen anywhere in the cart if I ride.

Personally the $200 spent on the range finder versus the number of rounds I play yearly (well north of 52 rounds) makes this economical and no yearly renewal. So again provided I upkeep it, it will serve me well for years to come.

Besides isn't a smart phone for playing games and answering texts or... yanno? LOL
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 Message #73042 - This was a reply to message #73040

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