I played the course for the first time. This course is most impressive. It has several interesting holes that require golfers to plan their shot making and tests your skill. I was particularly impressed with the beautiful landscaping and work put into bridges and tees. This is a course that is well worth playing and one that could be played daily without losing interest. The only negative was that we started play at 2:oo behind a tournament. It took us three hours to play the front nine and we only made it to hole 15 before it got dark. We drove in the final three holes which look like the very best on the course. This course gets the seal of approval. Also, fairways were rolling and dry. The greens were a bit bumpy, but that should be expected for poana late in the day.

Here is the latest update on the Champions course and it isnt very positive. I played yesterday with a former Champions tour player and between holes we discussed the course condition. I remained unbiased so as not to influence his comments. He also wondered why the course was so wet that many of our drives remained within inches of where they landed. They have several wet roped off areas in the middle of fairways where carts and play are impossible. By the way, it hasnt rained here in weeks. Look back several weeks ago to my comments about the soaking wet area just in front of the 14 th green. I landed a perfect iron from 200 yds. that stuck like a dart in the wet ground. My shoes end up muddy like I just played a round in the rain. They have a roped off area there so why dont they simply let it dry out? I made some inquiries from some employees in the know and they told me that the main concern is to prepare the course for the upcoming champions tour q school. That explanation didnt make sense to me. Why would the course have to be a mess up until then? By the way, if you are wondering why my last comments were so positive, it was due to my attempt to be positive and more of a head in the sand attitude. I played this course for the last five years and have watched a rugged, back to nature experience, turn into a bad dream. Stand on the 13th or 14th tee and look at the once green hillsides that are now construction zones for some of the ugliest homes I ever saw. For those of you who know something about seed germination and how plant life rejuvinates, you will see why the remaining course vegetation is begining to lose it's density. The Legends course will be next, because I understand that a road is planned right through the course behind the 14th tee. I suggest patronizing other courses and letting these guys know that, while we understand the importance of economics, we dont have to give our dollars to an overcommercialized venture that wrecks havoc on the golfing experience. Just one golfers opinion.

I played the Champions and was very pleasantly surprised. The greens were much improved and held shots perfectly. Most of the fairways were adequate with the exception of still being too wet and some verticuting, but still fine to play. We are beginning to see signs of cleaning up the areas surrounding the course where there has been major housing construction. I was very disappointed to see that the pristine land along fourteen, fifteen and sixteen, which were once designated environmentally sensitive and where we were once not even allowed to enter to find lost balls, is now dug up for more housing. Someone must have lined their pockets to pull that one off. I think this is a great course and worth the money, but feel cheated by the economic circumstances that should have been foreseen by the original planners. The surrounding land should have been bought by the SCPGA and they could have partnered with a developer whose profit motivations would have been tempored to create an atmosphere that didnt reek with commercialism. The SCPGA would be sitting in a great financial position today if only they hadnt allowed themselves to be duped into accepting the free land for the courses. They sold their souls in my humble opinion.

This course is a real test of your game and your ego. If you fall asleep on a shot, say hello to a double bogey. The course has a variety of different type holes and is very interesting from all sets of tees. Most f the holes have generous driving areas, but tough approach shots. My only disappointment with the course is that I believe the greens are not undulated enough. I like lots of double and triple breaks, but they are well conditioned and smooth and fair. I wonder if they were purposely designed with the Hope tournament in mind so as to make it more tv friendly when the pros knock in those thirty footers. Great facility, which will only improve as clubhouse and hotel are built. By the way, only one or two holes parallel another so you get that true golf experience that seems to be fading into the sunset on the modern courses. Arent you all sick of seeing condo lined fairways? This is worth every cent.

The eleventh hole, normally a 625 yd. par five, is being played as a par three. After months of water and mud draining into the fairway, mostly due to the bare earth adjoining hillside resulting from neverending construction, a work crew is working on installing a new drainage system. The temporary solution to install mismatched sod never took root, so to speak. I hate to say I told you so, but what do you expect to happen when you have bowl shaped fairways with hillsides deplete of ground cover? Dont you think you might want to discuss the situation with your neighbor if his mud kept sliding onto your property? The rainy season is coming soon and the hills are not alive with the sound of music: they are alive with mud. Wait for the excuses guys, because they are coming.

Everyone has their own taste said the old lady when she kissed the cow. I played the course a few days ago with two pros and they were constantly talking about how good the course was and the shame that the conditions were so average. For some reason, which I would ask the greenskeeper to answer, the greens here are punched every six weeks with intermitant sanding and verticuting. We the players wonder when do we ever see the benefit? Almost everyone agrees, with the exception of the previous person, that the traps are seriously neglected due to lack of sand and standing water or damp shallow bottoms. My other player friend, who is a greenskeeper himself, says the fairways are overwatered which is drowning the root system due to lack of oxygen. This condition is exacerbated by players driving over unmarked wet spots causing even more damage. I have read and been told that the reason for overwatering is the hot conditions. Please explain to me how Silverrock, Mission Hills, and Rancho LaQuinta; courses I played in the Sept. heat of the desert, were dry. Maybe I am just too critical, but after many years playing golf, I think I know whether or not a course is in good condition or not.

I played the course yesterday and enjoyed it for it s scenery and great layout, but there are some real problems here. When do we the players finally see the results of constant sanding, punching and verticuting the greens? They are bumpy and not rolling true. If you are the typical higher handicap golfer, one would probably not be so concerned, but for those of us who work hard on our games, it is annoying and difficult to putt. Some of the traps, hole no. two especially, have standing water. The fairways in most places are great, but look a bit shaggy and wet in others. I see that the maintainance people are putting some white sand on the facing of the traps, but not in the areas where your ball ends up. I would prefer to leave the facing as it is and use the sand where it is needed. There is an obvious lack of money available and this is a real shame. Someone needs to find a solution that brings some serious revenue to the operation. I believe this course could be one of the finest in all of S, CA, if the right people put their heads together,

One big problem here is an excessive amount of unrepaired ball marks on the greens. This is the fault of the people who play here and partly the managements responsibility. The hosts who sometimes drive around the course should be assigned this duty. We all know that an unrepaired mark takes days to recover versus taking a few seconds to be considerate. I would like to see please repair ballmark signs on each tee and mentioned by the starters. The problem is getting serious for those of us who like to play well conditioned courses. Putting is hard enough.

It appears that I am one of the few that cares to rate this course. Here is the latest and most accurate update. The traps are finally complete and they are excellent. I hit in them four times and was able to execute my shots with no problems. Congratulations. The fairways are fine if the bare spots are avoided. We call these areas ground under repair and drop away. I am hoping the greens will speed up and would like to see the tee boxes with more firm footing. They are kind of mushy and uneven, but not worth getting upset about. All this place needs is cleaning up the perimeter areas where the developers chopped up the ground and we could have a first rate course. I hope we dont get another rain storm because the hillsides are still bare and that means major runoff and damage to the course. The rainy season is fast approaching and this issue needs serious attention or we will experience another muddy mess.

Things are getting better around here. The traps are finally repaired with excellent sand. I was in three of them and I have to complement the greenskeeper for the good job. Fairways are nice and soft, but a bit too wet. We kept finding our balls with mud on them when they hit the ground. Greens are still too slow for my tastes, especially since they are designed to really test one's putting ability due to the contours. Come on guys, the humidity isnt so high around here that bent grass has to be kept so long. I grew up in the east with the highest humidity you can imagine and our bent greens were lightning fast. Now all we need is for you to get after the developers and repair the eyesores adjajent to the course and please fix that ugly area between no s two and three. yeech.

Here are some detailed facts about the condition of this course. The rough on the left side along the entire length of the fourth hole is encroached by the construction. First and second shots can land is dug up areas that should have been repaired because they are so close to the course. No. 5 is so wet in the fairway and especially just to the left front of the green. Balls plug and my practice swing with a short pitch covered my wedge with wet mud. The area between no. five and six is undefined. It is only ten yards wide but has been dug up for a sewer pipe and left unrepaired. Just to the left of the green on no. six across the cart path the ground has been totally dug up and left unrepaired. Most holes have dug up fairways in the center due to tire tracks from maintainance people. See holes ll and especially no. 13. Area in front of green on fourteen and to the right too wet and tire track damage. Traps are being repaired which is a good sign.

I want to clear the air for you guys that want an answer to the question, is it worth driving one hundred miles to play these courses? Yes, they are both great tracks and test every level of player. The facilities are great and so are the people, but there is a conditioning problem. Come play the course and see for yourselves. The fees are low and you will be well treated. Just dont tell me that I am some disgruntled crackpot because I have a critical eye when I see poor playing conditions. For players like myself, who have a below scratch handicap, the conditions effect our scoring ability. A shot that ends up in a muddy sandless hardpan bunker that is unraked can make the difference between a low score and an average day. Ball marks and sodded green collars due to inexperienced maintainance workers causes havoc to otherwise good shots. Has anyone ever seen a ground under repair sign or a limed area? Even the higher handicap players are aware of these problems. Suppose you were about to break ninety for the first time and your ball plugged in one of the dirt faces of the traps becoming unplayable or one of the areas where your ball settles in pure dirt depressions around the green leaving an impossible chip shot. Still, I say these could be the two best courses in S. ca. If only they could get their excrement accumulated.